Sony v PS3 Hackers Suit

[Phane]

Yeah, if you didn't hear. Sony's suing everybody.

If you haven't been paying close attention to this case, you probably should. It doesn't just effect PS3 owners, but has very sweeping implications to any consumer electronics devices.

Do you actually own that Blu-ray player you just bought? Could the manufacturer willingly disable DVD playback in a firmware update? If you hacked it to restore that functionality, would doing so mean that the manufacturer could sue you in a state on the other side of the country and confiscate your Blu-ray player and all of your computers? This is pretty much what's happened to Geohot and if Sony wins this case, the case could be the same with any electronic devices you own. Everything from upgrading the hard drive on your DVR to replacing Windows on your Dell with Linux could become legal gray areas if the manufacturers decided to make it so.

[Phane]

More info

That article has a piece of inaccurate information. It says that Geohot's firmware "enables the Playstation 3 to play pirated and homebrewed games". It only enables homebrew. In order to play pirated games on his firmware, you'd need to download a homebrew application written by a different person who's NOT being sued by Sony (interestingly enough).

[Phane]

TRO withheld in court

Judge alters orders to be more practicable

Hotz contends that the Order is overbroad because it prohibits him from hacking other companies’ secure systems and because it requires him to do the “impossible”: retrieve information distributed through the Internet. The Order does neither. He further argues that he should remain free to continue his campaign of “unauthorized access” to the PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system (“PS3 System”) and to publish information gained thereby, despite his having unlawfully circumvented the Technological Protection Mechanisms (“TPM”) in the PS3 System and having trafficked in circumvention technologies – charges he does not, and cannot, refute.

Geohot should be flattered that Sony thinks he's a skilled enough hacker that he could cleanse the entire internet of the any copies of the METLDR key, especially since they effectively publicly disclosed it in their own court filings.

[Soral]

If you haven't been paying close attention to this case, you probably should. It doesn't just effect PS3 owners, but has very sweeping implications to any consumer electronics devices.

Do you actually own that Blu-ray player you just bought? Could the manufacturer willingly disable DVD playback in a firmware update? If you hacked it to restore that functionality, would doing so mean that the manufacturer could sue you in a state on the other side of the country and confiscate your Blu-ray player and all of your computers? This is pretty much what's happened to Geohot and if Sony wins this case, the case could be the same with any electronic devices you own. Everything from upgrading the hard drive on your DVR to replacing Windows on your Dell with Linux could become legal gray areas if the manufacturers decided to make it so.

Sorry phane, but I gotta call BS on that simply because GH distributed the data on his site, and put up a guide under his name on YouTube. If he tweeked it all by himself on his own hardware and didn't spread it around, do you think Sony would be knocking at his door now? Your own property, you do whatever you want with it, but once you break copyright laws and spread it around, that's when shit hits the fan. Basically what GH did.

Also, the judge retracted her order of the 'remove the hack from the internet', because she didn't know the details, so he doesn't have to do that now.

Tbh I wish he never released that hack, because all it does is more harm than good imo.

Edit: What I mean by more harm than good is those people logging in PSN with unsigned codes/CFW, cheating using it etc, then you get the piracy shit. PSP all over again? No, thanks. ;;

[Kametame]

Again, as phane said, the hack itself doesn't allow use of pirated copies of programs, it only allows homebrew software. However, as phane also said, someone else could make a homebrew program that allows pirated games to piggyback on it. That's one side of the coin.

The other side of the coin is that Sony did disable the "Other OS" feature -- and by doing so, opened up a can of worms. They pissed off everyone using the PS3s as a means of getting a very cheap computational cluster. Remember, they -advertised- this feature on the box (and it still is being advertised on their box).

A case example of acting appropriately would've been to just restore the "Other OS" feature and make do with people being able to access the hardware. Microsoft could've sued the guy who hacked the Kinect into oblivion, but they didn't. Now there's plenty of projects being carried out involving the Kinect.

Another interesting thing to look at was that recently the Library of Congress made amendments to allow jailbreaking/rooting on phones. I'm very interested in the outcome of this case because it could expand this amendment.

tl;dr: Homebrew != (does not equal) Pirating.

[Phane]

Sorry phane, but I gotta call BS on that simply because GH distributed the data on his site, and put up a guide under his name on YouTube. If he tweeked it all by himself on his own hardware and didn't spread it around, do you think Sony would be knocking at his door now? Your own property, you do whatever you want with it, but once you break copyright laws and spread it around, that's when shit hits the fan. Basically what GH did.

According to the literal wording of the DMCA and Sony's arguments, it doesn't matter if it's your own property. Geohot broke copyright laws even if he merely "tweeked it all by himself on his own hardware and didn't spread it around". Spreading it around may have pushed Sony to action, but the way the DMCA is worded, if hacking the PS3 wasn't illegal to begin with then distributing the info and tools wasn't illegal either. Under the literal wording of the DMCA, circumvention of copy-protection is illegal PERIOD. Distribution in tools that circumvent copy-protection is ALSO illegal, but it's a separate violation.

Also, the judge retracted her order of the 'remove the hack from the internet', because she didn't know the details, so he doesn't have to do that now.

Yes, this is true, but Sony's argument on why the TRO should stay as it was originally stated is what I was quoting as ridiculous nonsense, expecting Geohot and fail0verflow to somehow purge the internet of their keys and tools.

Tbh I wish he never released that hack, because all it does is more harm than good imo.

I agree with your opinion. However, don't say Sony is right to hang Geohot and fail0verflow out to dry merely because their work is being exploited by others more often than it's being used for legitimate purposes.

Also, don't forget that this whole thing started with Sony removing the capability of the PS3 to run unsigned code to begin with (which was a major, advertised feature).

[Soral]

But why did they dispel OtherOS in the first place? Oh thats right, because this clown was messing with it in the first place.

I tried to find a picture of the feature being advertised, but I was never able to. (This argument started between a poster on Ars technica and Ben Dakota, the writer of an article about this. Ben ended up not finding -anything- at all about this being advertised, so I went ahead and looked by myself on google)

DMCA itself is really flawed and needs to be challenged as is(through this case or anything else). As for the copy-right law being broken, it is true, even if he tweeked it by himself and didn't spread it, he still broke the law, but I highly doubt that they would take him to court for it vs distributing it, which is again is what he did.

Never said Sony was right with what they were doing in all of this clusterfuck. They are going overboard with it, but I'm guessing it is more of a deterrent by going after the source of the hack vs future hackers + for shareholders.
I guess in a way it is similar to going after napstar in the music industry not the illegal downloaders themselves.

No matter how you slice it Kame, this results in piracy. If you need homebrew so bad, PC's are cheap enough nowadays to do it easily. Homebrew doesn't equal piracy, but we all know what it will be most used for. Prime example is again the PSP.

Again, I don't give a damn what you do with what you bought, but bringing it up to me in my playtime on the Playstation Network in online games and ruining the games is what's making me hate it the most and say it again: he shouldn't have released it, if he really wanted the PS3 cracked, he could have given it to some unknown Russian group that would spread it around like wild fire, but no, it is his ego and wanting to be in the spotlight.

[Phane]

Again, I don't give a damn what you do with what you bought, but bringing it up to me in my playtime on the Playstation Network in online games and ruining the games is what's making me hate it the most and say it again: he shouldn't have released it, if he really wanted the PS3 cracked, he could have given it to some unknown Russian group that would spread it around like wild fire, but no, it is his ego and wanting to be in the spotlight.

Geohot's got a massive ego, no doubt, however him hacking GPU access under Linux with the PS3 isn't adequate enough of an excuse to retroactively disable an advertised feature, and you should remember that they removed it from the slim models BEFORE he hacked GPU access in Linux. As far as finding somewhere where it's advertised, here's one on sony's own website several more examples listed in the lawsuit filing and there's several other lawsuits in several countries over them removing it.

It seems to me like you think Geohot's the only one being sued. He's not. As my original post says, Sony's trying to sue just about everybody. They're trying to subpoena Google, Twitter, etc to find the names of team fail0verflow (the guys that originally cracked the PS3's encryption) and various other hackers that have released tools and firmwares for the PS3, as well as the names of everyone that ever so much as LOOKED at the PS3's key, Geohot's firmware and youtube video. Team fail0verflow is named in the original suit as some 100+ John Does.

In addition, the DMCA claims are only two of the laundry list of charges Sony is accusing them all of. They're also pressing FELONY HACKING charges against them all under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (another poorly written law designed to protect computers of financial institutions). They're claiming Geohot was profiting from piracy because he had a Paypal donation link on his website (they even donated $1 to him to prove it). They're claiming they all are pirates by distributing the keys because the KEYS THEMSELVES are copyrighted works just by being part of the PS3's code. They're claiming Geohot is guilty of EXTORTION when he tweeted "if you want your next console to be secure, get in touch with me". They conveniently left out the rest of his statement, "any of you 3. it'd be fun to be on the other side" so as to make it look like Geohot's tweet was aimed at Sony specifically.

Basically, they are abusing the DMCA, the CFAA and tossing in a few other loose accusations for good measure. They have a decent case on the DMCA charges (abusive as they might be) but the rest is largely bs. It seems to me that Sony isn't out to win this case (if they were, they'd only file charges on the strong DMCA claims and not weaken their entire case with the other accusations). IMO, Sony is out to make as scary an example out of as many people as possible to send a message loud and clear, "You mess with the PS3, we will abuse the legal system to steal all of your computers and PS3's, bankrupt you with litigation fees and press felony criminal charges against you".

[Soral]

Yeah I know all of that. You didn't have to tell me the whole story again. lol
They are going after everyone one way or another, not just sueing. They have been sending take down notices to whoever has the PS3 hack up.

That website link isn't really considered advertisement, it is just a manual/guide thing for those who has not updated their consoles. You could say someone who is like the Air Force, still using a cluster of PS3s of some sort. As for whats in the .pdf file(I skimmed through it though), those are names of people talking about the OtherOS feature, no actual piece of advertisement, which is why they got off clean from that in courts.

As for removing it from the slims. I believe it was because of the updates' costs/keeping the linux stuff all up to date, then that caused a split in the PS3's OS(two models), so how do you cut costs even more? Make it one again, and get rid of the OtherOS at the same time. I should look for where I read this, but you get the idea.

This is all more bad PR for them even though it is within their right that they are using these laws (all these charges, wrong or right they may be, are just thrown altogether at once to see what sticks.)

Yeah, you can say they are out to get him purposely, but he is the one(along with few others) who opened the door. They still broke Copy right laws, there is no denying it, and that was never legal in the states, by spreading the master key, which is copy right-protected, all around the place and using it for this to work. But then, I have no idea what the outcome will be like, and I could be very well wrong.

As for the quoted part: My point was that if he just handed the exploits to some random russian or even chinese group of hackers, all these law suits wouldn't have happened, and he would still get away with it, but no. In a way, this might turn out to be useful since it might change the DMCA law, it is really flawed system and should be fixed.

[Soral]

I just found this..lol I guess they are really getting into his head. They may not win, but hell, they are making his life difficult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg