ZNM Effiency! Please read

[cataroux]

Ok heres one way we can become more efficient on ZNM nights. Its come to my attention some have been waiting 3 weeks plus for tier IIIs. So i say we do Tier IIIs first since they take up the most time. Then Tiers I and II will be after these require minimum amount of ppl and time as Tier IIIs take alot of both. Doing this will relieve those holding tier IIIs further completing Tier IV pops while not adding tier IIIs to the random pool for the day. Those that did tiers I and II will do their tier IIIs the following week.



I await you to Reply and complicate things

[ryansrc]

well cata since u have only been here a little while you wouldnt know but normally when we start ZNMs we have 8 - 10 people. so lately there is a overflow so i took some people to do some tier2's. i think if we start znm's with 18 ppl or more we could to the tier3s if the right jobs for it.

[cataroux]

Yeah, i was told, but now that we have overflow do you agree that would be a better way? This is only a suggestion not trying to start a fight or anything. I'm just tired of have tier IIIs ready to go and weeks before i get to pop them. Hell kea has had Armed gears for awhile now to my knowledge and haven't done it for him untill tonight i think. So this should ease congestion.

[Sally (Amoe)]

well sometimes, we only do one tier 3 at a time, like for example we did armed gears a while ago and then focused on dea. since more people needed armed gears and gotah now, we will focus on those. so typically if you miss those times when we did the other tier 3 or got it when we are on another tier 3 then youll have to wait till we get around to it again. also there are usually long time periods before we do tier 4's so that as many people as possible can get their pops. in keals case, he was mia i believe for awhile so he may of missed the last time we did armed gears. i think most people who have the pops now, did not have pops back when we did it, so thats why they had waited so long to do their pops. As far as i remember everyone who had pops for AG last time got to pop theirs except for me because i was a social member at the time. Dont worry everyone will get their pops done and will have a chance at the tier 4 znm.

Although i do believe that splitting up if we have an overflow of extra people like we did today was a good idea in order to get t1 and t2 done faster. but its all up to those that run znm night.

[Mahoro]

Sally is correct on the AG issue. Cata, you and Keal and others were holding on to those AG pops for a couple of weeks because we have been focusing on the other T3 mobs in the Tinnin path, Dea and Gotoh Zha. If you look at the attendance posts from April, we had already done a round of AG's. So the "waiting" is not caused by any inherent inefficiency in the ZNM planning. In fact, the more that I move the ally to different mobs in the same night, the MORE inefficiency results. That is why I made the call for the ally to stay at AG last night, even though I knew full well we had Gotoh pops to burn through. When I set the LSMES, I had originally planned to move to Gotoh, but when everyone and their mother started showing up with AG pops, it was simply more efficient to keep everyone there.

(On a side note, I know people started grumbling once I called priority on DK and Lenus's AG. Because of the sheer number of AG pops people started showing up with, I let priority slide until DK and Lenus reminded me that they needed 1 AG apiece to complete Tinnin. That has always been an established priority rule during ZNM night. The rest of you certainly got enough chances to /random before and after DK/Lenus popped theirs. )

As for your other suggestion, as Ryan said, the issue here is that when Muir and I first started setting up ZNM nights for Anduril late last year, we would typically start the evening at 8 EST only having 8-10 people in the alliance. More would show up as the night progressed (usually when DB's Limbus shell ended its run at 9 EST since he has a lot of Anduril people there). So a pattern developed: start the evening off doing T1s/T2s and move on to T3s when there is enough manpower. Yesterday was the first time Muir and I have ever seen that much overflow. Something like 25 people showed up, and we did our best splitting the ally up to handle two lower tier mobs at a time.

I know it may seem like a waste of time to do T1s and T2s when we have manpower for a T3, but most people look to ZNM night as an opportunity to do the lower tiers because they do not have the time, resources or wherewithal to finish those pops the rest of the week. Anduril events take up 3 days of the week, and some people have other commitments such as Limbus and Dynamis on the Anduril "off-days." You appear to be suggesting doing T3's first and then doing T1s/T2s at the end of the evening, but I'm not sure I understand the point of simply reversing the order in which we kill the mobs. Either way, we will be setting aside alliance time killing lower tier mobs. Reading between the lines of your post, you seem to be suggesting giving priority on T3 pops to the people who HAD their T3 pop before the night began rather than allowing a T3 pop from the people who JUST purchased it that night because we killed their lower tier mobs. THAT is something we have not done before, but if enough people feel that strongly about it, Muir and I can discuss amending the policy.

[Kealoha]

Yeah i been holding on to Armed Gears for sumtime now but hey what can i do? What Amoe said is true i was MIA until i came back recently in April to FFXI. I don't mind waiting for my Tier 3 pop to be popped besides i may complain alot but still take pride in helping ppl get there Tier 1 & 2 pops outta the way even though i lack the proper jobs to assist. Well hopefully after SAM is done i will grind RDM to 75 and be of more use to the LS on any event we do ^^ ~Kealoha

[cataroux]

Ok let me try to simplify it even more.. we split up last night to do Hades Tier I and II he was able to pop his tier III BEFORE me even who only had Tier III pops from the start of event. Perhaps you can see my frustration? I don't know how to simplify this anymore. By starting with Tiers IIIs on Events we get em out of the way then the new coming Tier IIIs can do theirs the following week. This way it eases congestion of certain tier Pop random pools. Also, i gave up my position on dea one night so i wouldn't be late for salvage and muir told me if i can't stay the whole time then they would let me pop my NMs but last night this wasn't the case even though i had been their for everyone else pops.. If the SHs don't mean what they say please don't say it.

[Muirnin]

Mahoro and I discussed giving you priority Cata, but decided not to for several reasons. First, one AG would not give you a Tinnin set, other peoples' would. Second, with that many AG pops, there was no way we'd get through them all. We have to do another night, so you can pop yours then and not miss out on the opportunity to get in an AG pop before you'd have a chance to pop Tinnin. Third, neither one of us enough were told enough in advance to plan accommodations properly, we kind of got blindsided one fight before the deadline. If we have enough pops to get them all done that night without spanning to another and you're going to have to leave early, go ahead and let us know, we'll make sure you don't miss your chance!

As I'm sure everyone noticed, Monday was a bit crazy 'cause we've simply never had that many people before, and people were doing multi pops across tiers, so it took some sticky planning and that does get a bit inefficient. Believe it or not, past one alliance, more people is less efficient 'cause we have to spend time figuring out who to send where for what, which gets especially tricky if one group is doing a T1 and the other group is doing T2s on the same path. It's fairly common for people to want to go T1 > T2 the same night, and if there are two different groups doing them, people have to be juggled. Also, sorry if it's not clear, but I'm a volunteer, not a SH. I just do this to help make sure we get T4s ready so people can get the items they want. ^^;

[ryansrc]

all i can say is the random is fair! but as mahoro said priority for pops should of been done, next time it will be done if we are doing T4's soon. but we helped you do your pops so the ls rules are meant to help all people equally and with 58 people thats hard. dont be in a rush i have had some of my pops for 3-5 months.

[Mahoro]

I do see why you are frustrated Cata, and I do agree that in last night's case the /randoming created an unfavorable situation for you. As Muir said, last night there were just too many pops to go in and assign priority based on who had to leave early because we wouldn't be able to get through them all anyway. On a night where it is theoretically possible to get to every pop, we WILL step in and assign priority to someone's pop if they have to leave early for some reason. The policy was stated correctly to you when Muir originally mentioned it to you. But that just wasn't the case last night.

Also, by the way, Hade already had an AG when we started to do AG after the rat. We split the ally up to do his Iriz Ima so that he could get a Gotoh pop. So it was just a case of bad luck on the AG /random. He didn't just purchase his AG right there and then and pop it before yours, he had been holding onto it like you.

I will discuss with Muir the possibility of starting out the night doing T3's pending manpower. It does have the potential to create some unfavorable situations if we can't get to everyone's pop in one night. Many of our policies come from a time when we were able to finish almost everybody's pop in the same night, INCLUDING the people who purchased it that night after we finished their T1s/T2s.

Next Monday we are going to finish up at AG and Gotoh to try to get to all the pops we couldn't get to last night.